Review for lesson 2

[Andy]

Japanese　Language

日本　NIHON　　Japan　　　　　　　日本語　　NIHON　GO　　　　　　　Japan－La nguage　　JAPANESE

日　Ni　　　　　　　Sun
本　Hon　　　　　　Origin
語　　GO　　 　　Language


Pronouns

私　　　Watashi 　　（I/me)

貴方　　Anata　　　（you)

To make a possessive pronoun add の (　"NO" ) to the noun.

私の　　　Watashi no　　(my)

貴方の　　Anata no　　　（Your）

The verb "To be" (is / am /are) is です　（Desu）　pronounced "Des" (like DES ROW) the "U" is silent.
です　　　　Desu　　　　　

Particles

は　　　Wa　　（Marks the subject of a sentence, can be translated "as for"）。


This, That, That over there

これ　Kore　　　THIS　
それ　Sore　　　THAT
あれ　Are　　　　THAT OVER THERE.


SENTENCE STRUCTURE

English is a Subject-- Verb-- Object language

Japanese is a Subject-- Object-- Verb language



これはpenです　This is a pen KORE WA PEN DESU
this　　　as for pen is

To form a question, add "か”　”KA”　to the end of the sentence.
KORE WA PEN DESU (this is a pen)

KORE WA PEN DESU KA? IS this a pen?


Yes and no

はい　　　　Hai　　　　Yes
いいえ　　　iie NO

KORE WA PEN DESU KA? IS this a pen?

Hai, SORE wa pen desu. Yes, THAT is a pen

MY NAME IS....

名前　　Namae　　　NAME

私の名前　　Watashi no namae　　　My　Name

貴方の名前　Anata　no　namae　　YOUR　Name

私の名前は　　Watashi　No　Namae　Wa　　　　As　For　My　Name

私の名前は＿Andy＿＿です　　　Watashi　No　Namae　Wa　ANDY　De su　

My　Name、As　For、　Andy　Is

Nationality

人　　JIN　　　Person

日本　Nihon　　　　　Japan

日本人　Nihonjin　　Japan Person　

アメリカ　　A　ME　RI　KA　　America

アメリカ人　　Amerika-jin　　America　Person　　（American)

　

[Dj. dp]

This is sick, we have a Japanese Lesson Thread, THAT HOT!!! and now I can learn some japanese words from just siting on my tushy and just reading lol

[framerate]

ANDY??
?????????????????????
??????????
LOL!!!!1 JAPANESE!!!!
________
Vapor Tower Vaporizer (http://www.vaporshop.com/vapor-tower-vaporizer.html)

[ZOOT]

You said that なに is pronounced なん when used in a sentence. I've never heard that before. I can't recall hearing the vowel sound devoiced in eg. "何がすきですか" ("なんが" sounds strange).　　Maybe a slight overgeneralization?

- Glenn

[Andy]

You said that なに is pronounced なん when used in a sentence. I've never heard that before. I can't recall hearing the vowel sound devoiced in eg. "何がすきですか" ("なんが" sounds strange).　　Maybe a slight overgeneralization?

- Glenn

You can't recall hearing "Nan" aka the devoiced vowel sound in a sentence? Were talking about Japanese right? That's impossible considering "Nan desu ka" is a concrete formula and is day one Japanese. How is that an overgeneralization?

NANI desu ka, isn't even close to being correct. How long have you been speaking Japanese? I mean, Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I know everything, I'm no expert, but I'm pretty confident in my abilities, I've been to Japan 4 times, each time I don't speak a word of English, I taught English to executives of Toyota, Honda and Mitsubishi at a Japanese language school in California. I run a Japanese import business, where I speak Japanese on the phone every day. Unless Japanese has evolved in the last 10 minutes and I missed something... Hold on, let me check, you know, since I'm in Japan and all.... Nope, it's still the same. Since you can't recall hearing it, below are some very common examples which will help jog your memory.

今は何時ですか？

貴方の住所は何ですか？

貴方の名前は何ですか？

これは何ですか？


Since "what" is an interrogative word it more likely than not, going to be used in the context "What is it?"
of course you can replace the Nan desu ka, with just "Nani" which would be extremely informal. If this is your goal, then you should have said, "Nan is not the only form of 'what' that can be used in a sentence, Nani can be used as well" and you would have been 100 percent correct. Eventually we will get to that point in the class, but as I explained before, I am teaching everyone polite / business Japanese. We will cover slang eventually, but you we have to walk before you can run.

Your example "何がすきですか" is pretty difficult when taken out of context. The literal translation of "What is liked" by itself makes no sense. At some point in the conversation there was a subject established by は. That's like me walking up to some random person and saying "what do you like?" They would probably think I'm a drug dealer or a pimp at which point I would get shot and the Japanese lessons and TGA as we know it will cease to exist.

Ok, all joking aside, I'm assuming your goal is to ask "What do you like" which on it's face tells me nothing because I don't know the context it's used in. If I was speaking, the proceeding conversation would probably be qualified by the の方が/よりformula,　どんな or の中に　Nan　would be avoided all together, because in this case I would chose どちらの方がいいですか？　Ｉｎ　the　ｃａｓｅ　of　のなかに　the　ｏｎｌｙ　ｌｏｇｉｃａｌ　 ending　when using "what" ｉｓ　ｔｈｅ　ａｄｊｅｃｔｉｖｅ or noun followed　ｂｙ　何ですか? Or, why not avoid NAN altogether and use.

I hope that helps, if not, I will try to explain it better.

Thanks

Andy

[framerate]

well it helped me! :D
________
HOW TO ROLL A JOINT (http://howtorollajoint.net/)

[Garrett]

well it helped me! :D

It just blew my mind!

[ZOOT]

You can't recall hearing "Nan" aka the devoiced vowel sound in a sentence?*snip*
Sorry if I was unclear, but that's not what I meant. What I can't recall hearing is the rule you gave: that it's pronounced "nan" in a sentence and "nani" as an exclamation, and gave an example of where that seems to be incorrect: when preceding the particle が. It's true that it's often pronounced "nan" when used in a sentence, but there are plenty of cases where it's not; exclamations are just one. (I think before を, too.)

[Dj. dp]

You said that なに is pronounced なん when used in a sentence. I've never heard that before. I can't recall hearing the vowel sound devoiced in eg. "何がすきですか" ("なんが" sounds strange).　　Maybe a slight overgeneralization?

- Glenn Are you trying to make fun of the iiliusrations or are you really typing in japanese and I cant read it. can someone tell me what I have to do to be able to read it?

[ZOOT]

Are you trying to make fun of the iiliusrations or are you really typing in japanese and I cant read it. can someone tell me what I have to do to be able to read it?
You may need to install Japanese support in your browser. How you do that depends on which browser you're using, and which version of Windows you're in, though. Loading this page (http://zewt.org/japanese/ie.html.sjis) might work--depending on your machine, it may prompt you to install it (that works in Win2k, at least).

[Insane_Bassist]

Sorry if I was unclear, but that's not what I meant. What I can't recall hearing is the rule you gave: that it's pronounced "nan" in a sentence and "nani" as an exclamation, and gave an example of where that seems to be incorrect: when preceding the particle が. It's true that it's often pronounced "nan" when used in a sentence, but there are plenty of cases where it's not; exclamations are just one. (I think before を, too.)

Yeah. When used before the ending, と, の, etc.... it's pronounced　なん. Before を it's なに.　With が　it must be too. Yeah. I couldn't imagine being like なんがほしいですか。　That would be nani.

Eh. I've never payed attention to the rules for that, but I think you're sort of supposed to pick it up.

[NekoNekoKakumei]

Damn, I miss one lesson and I miss a lot! 糞! But that's what this thread is here for... is stroke order really that important or can we fudge it at first?

[ZOOT]

Damn, I miss one lesson and I miss a lot! 糞! But that's what this thread is here for... is stroke order really that important or can we fudge it at first?
From here (http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/japanese/message/jpnDwSsZiGcDwSSBIyT.html):
You should know the radical writing order of a kanji, but the stroke order of a radical is not important. In addition, some kanji have several stroke orders. You need to know how to count strokes, though, to find a kanji in a kanji dictionary.

It's probably a good idea to learn stroke orders until you get a feel for them, to understand proportions and orientation--if you write kanji with no understanding of that, you'll probably end up with Picassoesque kanji. :)

[Insane_Bassist]

Definitely pay attention to the stroke order now! It gets confusing when I try to write kanji I wrote a while ago in the right order. It's better to pay attention to that XD.

[Andy]

Sorry if I was unclear, but that's not what I meant. What I can't recall hearing is the rule you gave: that it's pronounced "nan" in a sentence and "nani" as an exclamation, and gave an example of where that seems to be incorrect: when preceding the particle が. It's true that it's often pronounced "nan" when used in a sentence, but there are plenty of cases where it's not; exclamations are just one. (I think before を, too.)

Which example did I give that's incorrect?

As far as the "Nan / Nani" rule I gave, The reason you never heard that rule is because it is a forumla I am introducing to the students. There are exceptions to the rule which we will cover later. I have my own style of teaching which is different from other styles. Please understand this.

Another example of this is when I said "After establishing 私、貴方　or any other noun as the subject do not repeat it in the next sentences. BUT FOR NOW I WANT YOU TO REPEAT IT SO YOU CAN TRAIN YOUR EARS TO HEAR THIS FORMULA."

Ok how about we do this：if anyone has any questions about something they didn't understand in the class, pm me, I will discuss it with you in private via a pm. If I'ts something that will benefit everyone I will post it here.

This thread is for help with the lessons and I'm not going to turn it into a debate or "Let's see how much Japanese Andy knows by telling everyone what he's teaching is wrong (even though he's not) and see how he responds." If people want to show off by saying, "Look at amount of Japanese I can speak" do it somewhere else. I'm not going to have my students confused or waste time on silly debates only to show I was right all along.

If anyone has any doubts if I can speak this language or not, see me in person. I'm not going to keep re-stating my qualifications, because frankly I don't have to, if you don't believe that I can speak Japanese that's your problem not mine.

I'm not one to show off or say look what I can do, but if my qualifications or teachings are questioned I'm going to defend them. Or I'll simply delete the post because it's a waste of everyone's time.

I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but I was once challenged on my qualifications and didn't feel the need to respond. Not responding in typical "Forum $%hole bragging fashion" made it seem like I didn't know what I was doing and gave the appearance that TGA was weak. I then had to spend hours proving I could speak this language and doing damage control, when the truth was never even knew about it until about 4 months later, that's why I didn't feel the need to respond. Responding at that point would have been useless. So again, I'm not going to waste anymore time on this.

Feel free to create a thread called, "Look at me, I can speak Japanese" if people want to post on it they can. They just won't do it here.

Threads like "What Japanese books I find useful", are great and are an example of what I'm trying to accomplish.

If ANYONE has ANYMORE questions on "Nan/ Nani" please pm me. Can we now get back on topic? Oh wait, I'm sorry, we WILL get back on topic. This is not the way I want to spend my first few hours back from Japan after having flights cancelled and my luggage lost.

If anyone still has any doubts, You can ask Rob, Gavin, Billy or Chie how much Japanese I don't speak. They can tell you. Or you can come talk to me in person, because 俺はいつでも日本語の会話の練習楽しいだ.

Andy





　

[Insane_Bassist]

Andy please calm down.

They were just asking, probably as to make sure that anyone else who reads this thread would understand that.
As was the purpose of my elaboration.

I think we all understand the fact that you know Japanese. Otherwise you wouldn't be teaching. And it's perfectly cool if you have your own teaching style.

Sorry if that offended you in some way.

[ZOOT]

This thread is for help with the lessons and I'm not going to turn it into a debate or "Let's see how much Japanese Andy knows by telling everyone what he's teaching is wrong (even though he's not) and see how he responds." If people want to show off by saying, "Look at amount of Japanese I can speak" do it somewhere else. I'm not going to have my students confused or waste time on silly debates only to show I was right all along.
None of this relates to what I've said. I've replied in private.

[DJ_Inuchan]

Glenn.. just shut up, you were wrong, get over it XD

[Insane_Bassist]

Glenn.. just shut up, you were wrong, get over it XD

Not wrong, they were just on a different page. Andy teaches this stuff later, and Glenn already knows it.
But yeah we can all shut up, before this thread gets nazi-modded.

[Anthony]

But yeah we can all shut up, before this thread gets nazi-modded.

Hahaha, you saw it coming. Stealth Mod Attack! http://mycrap.ath.cx/sub/forum/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif

[Hi-C]

Originally Posted by Andy
Unless Japanese has evolved in the last 10 minutes and I missed something... Hold on, let me check, you know, since I'm in Japan and all.... Nope, it's still the same.

LMAO x 10. Andy is the man, I wish I could give him Karma for that.

[Super Steve]

hey guys what Japanese language books do you find useful? =)

[framerate]

well, this thread is OLD.
ill help you.
(* means I doubt you can find this at your local Boarders, I got these books in San Fransisco in specialty stores)
All of these books (except *'d ones) CAN be found at Borders or Barnes and Noble.

best book evar: "Kanji Pict-o-Graphix" by Michael Rowley
"A Dictionary of Japanese Grammer" by Seiichi Makino and Michino Tsutsui *
"Essential Kanji" by P.G. O'Neill
"The Compact NELSON Japanese-English Character Dictionary" - Andrew N. Nelson *

GREAT book: "Japanese Step-By-Step" by Gene Nishi

[Catastrophe]

This thread makes Andy look like a language nazi, which he's not. Why did you bump it? I didn't even know that this forum was 2 years old.

[framerate]

lol it does. I remember during a lesson, i introduced myself using 僕は instead of 私は, Andy was like: UH NO. Use more proper ways of speaking. (he didnt actually say that, but he looked at me like that, and corrected me in the usual wicked respectful Andy way.